Is It a Good Fit?

Alright, you experienced saddle fitters out there in the blogosphere.  I need your opinion.

I purchased my new Tucker Cheyenne Springs trail saddle for two reasons:

1)  My "dream" saddle, a Hereford roping saddle, at close to 40 pounds, was getting too heavy for this old body to heft onto a horse.  Although I liked it's heavy-duty construction and full rigging, it was really a case of overkill for the riding that I do.

And, more importantly,

2) The Hereford had a semi-Quarter Horse tree, which it became evident was too narrow for either of my wide-bodied girls.

Kate developed patches of white hair at the top of both shoulders, indicating that the saddle was pinching her there, preventing both sweat (she would have a little dry spot there on an otherwise wet back) and circulation (hence killing the hide's color-producing cells). (By the way, it seems I switched saddles in time to prevent permanent damage:  this spring those vague white patches shed out with Kate's winter coat, leaving her dun coloring intact.)

Maddie is white on both shoulders, so the color-change wasn't there, but the lack of a proper sweat pattern was enough to cue me in.

So the Hereford went down the road to a [strong] young gal in Oregon who wanted to do cow horse work, and I began my search for a new saddle.

 I looked at various saddle designed for the middle-aged, female trail rider and ended up deciding on the Tucker brand, that was developed specifically for this particular market sector.  Because I have my English saddles if I want to ride in that fashion, and I have Paint horses to show/market in cowboy country, I wanted a pretty traditional looking western saddle.  The Cheyenne Springs fit the bill.

My friend Anita and I had hauled the girls down to Yakima earlier this year to make sure of the tree width to order, and put in my order.All of Kate and Maddie's rides this spring have been in the Tucker, with escalating problems with Maddie seemingly related to the dropped rigging necessitating a switch in girths.  But Kate has done well.
The only question I have is about the sweat pattern that developed after our ride last week in Robinson Canyon.  It was the most strenuous ride we've had this year, on a fairly humid day.  When I pulled Kate's tack off, here is how her back looked.

Her shoulders where the last saddle pinched were nicely wet.  The "tunnel" of the gullet was appropriately dry indicating plenty of air circulation down her spine between the bars of the saddle.  The thing that has me perplexed, however, is the dry area 2+ inches either side of that:  does this indicate that the saddle is "bridging" between the front and back, and not distributing the saddle/rider's weight uniformly across her back?

 

 This side (left) seems passable to me, but...

 

 ...her right side had an odd circle of sweat around the lower dry patch.

And the reality is that as Kate gets a little more fit (and loses a little more weight, though she's not as bad as last year) the "table" that is her back may become more sloped.  It will bear watching how this effects the saddle's fit to her back in the future.

What do y'all think?

It's Here!

And here.
And here.
Last week when I went down to Yakima for my post-operative check-up, I was also able to pick up my new Tucker "Cheyenne Springs" saddle!
It's GORGEOUS!
Unfortunately, between the weather, and the Doc's release to go back to work on Thursday, I didn't have a chance to try it out until Saturday. (PanKake told me it is very comfy.) This was Maddie's first ride since last fall, and, although she was pretty amped, she stood quietly while I mounted.
PanKake was right.
Pat had ridden Rambler down, while ponying Chief, and once Maddie settled a bit, we rode part way back towards her place with them, then returned home.
Today, Kate and I picked up Pat and Chief and we headed for the Boyleston trailhead for a little walk-about on the old Milwaukee Railroad rail-trail. The sun was out, and the windmills across the freeway were barely moving. There was one trailer there when we arrived, and several more pulled up in the time we were there, but we only saw two other groups of riders out on the trail.
Chief was a typical baby, wide-eyed and a little hesitant. He took one or two big jumps at carnivorous railroad ties hiding in the sagebrush, but settled quickly afterward.
Kate, however, was a POOP!
A couple of times when she would hesitate, Chief took that as an excuse to stop, and once he stopped, Kate would use that as an excuse to try to stop herself. They just fed each other's worries. Then Kate would give me an all out balk, and because of the narrowness of the railroad bed, and the fact that in places it dropped off rather precipitously on either side, I was not altogether comfortable getting after her. Once, I just got off and walked.
After a reasonable stretch of forward movement, we turned back towards the trailers, and both of them walked out nicely. We made a point of having them pass the turnoff to the parking area, and go another little distance down the trail in the other direction. Then, before either one of them could throw a fit, we made it our choice to turn back towards "home".
I'll give little Chief some wiggle room, because he is so green. But Kate was supposed to be setting a good example for him. Instead, she acted like a nitwit!
Who, me?

Adventures in Saddle Fitting

We had a busy weekend last week (and this week's been so busy at school that I'm just getting to posting about last weekend!).

Saturday dawned bright and warmish--up to the low forties--and I got a lot of catching up done on chores around the place.
Here, I'm unloading some sections of used telephone poles the power company was selling cheap--I plan to use them to construct a couple of trail obstacles this summer.

Then I got to looking at saddles on-line.You may remember that I sold my big heavy duty Hereford roping saddle last summer for two reasons: first, it was pinching Kate across the withers, and I was starting to see a few white hairs at the top of her shoulders. With further investigation of sweat patterns, it became evident that this was true with Maddie as well--I just couldn't see it on her white shoulders. So I needed a wider tree saddle. Secondly, at close to 40 pounds, the Hereford was getting too darn heavy for me to throw over the girls' backs, especially with my shoulder acting up the last year or so.
I've been trying various light weight trail saddles, including the treeless "Bob Marshall" style, and a Tucker brand "Plantation" endurance model. I researched others, including the Cashel "Trail Blazer", the Circle Y flex-tree "Park and Trail" and a few other more obscure brands. I pretty much decided that Tucker was the way to go for the horse's comfort (and the rider's is a fringe benefit).
I've been watching for Tucker trail saddles on Tack Trader, eBay, and a few other sites, hoping to find one I liked in my price range. The tree size and seat size were "have-to-haves," but I had a few "wants" that made it hard to find the exact saddle I was hoping for. I was about to settle for slight style deficits (I like a more traditional style, and Tucker's newer "golden" leather, plus I'd really like a Cheyenne roll-style cantle), when I got our taxes figured out last week, and we have a bigger refund coming than expected. Plus, we only have three more payments on the tractor.
Lovin' hubby Al suggested that I go ahead and treat myself to new, and order exactly what I wanted. (He said it could be my Christmas/anniversary/birthday present for the next couple of years--I didn't have the heart to remind him that we are still "paying off" the horse trailer for the next several years of celebrations!)

So I called the almost-local dealer, George Michels, of Midee Stitch Saddlery (in Yakima, 50 miles south), and started asking about deposits and time-lines for custom ordered Tuckers and such. He felt strongly that the only way to make sure we were getting the right size tree for the girls was to try the various sizes on them. He also wanted to judge which cinching system would be best, as the "Generation II" Tuckers have a more adjustable rigging than the originals.
Well, since there could be a month's delay from ordering to delivery (depending on choices made) and there was no guarantee that the roads would be as good next weekend, I loaded the girls up, and we were off to the big city!

Both Kate and Maddie loaded and traveled well, and were perfect ladies in the tiny parking lot of the store.
George brought out a couple of different models he had on hand, to show me where the latigo should fall, not too close to the elbow. The older models only have one position, and if it had put the cinch too far forward, he would have recommended the more expensive Gen II models.

But it was fine on both girls, as were the bars of the wide tree.

I was able to sit the 16 1/2 inch seat, but it was clear that the next size up would be more appropriate.

So the saddle was ordered!
A Tucker Cheyenne Springs in golden, like this one, but with border tooling and "trail glide" stirrups.
It should be here in three to four weeks--just about the same time I'm scheduled for gall bladder surgery! But in plenty of time for spring riding.
Ya-hoo!

It's past my bedtime, so I'll save our Sunday adventure for a later post.
Night-night.

Trial Trail Saddle

I have not been on a horse since the show, a week and a half ago,where Maddie unceremoniously dumped me. This is partly because the fall severely pulled a muscle in my back, partly because the weather got cold and nasty about the same time my back started feeling better, and partly because, in being laid up for a few days, I got seriously behinder on all the projects that had been waiting for summer break to get going.

Not to be discounted, as well, was the fact that my ego was bruised, and my confidence a bit shaken.

But last night I called my trail-riding friend Pat and basically committed myself to getting out with her by the end of the week.
So I needed to get back on a horse. This horse.
And I have a Tucker "Plantation" model saddle that a friend gave me to try out. Tuckers are supposed to be super comfortable for both horse and rider, and this one has an extra wide tree, and I wanted to see how it would fit Kate (and Maddie, too). It's also considerably lighter weight than my current roping style saddle, a plus for this increasingly arthritic lady. The Plantation is a hybrid saddle, with elements of both English and Western saddles: a fairly high Western style cantle, but no horn, instead having a pommel reminiscent of a McClellan; more free swinging stirrup leathers, though it has modified Western style fenders, making it more comfortable (less pinching) on the legs without having to wear tall boots. The Tuckers also have the "Euro-style" cinch set-up, which eliminates the back cinch, while still keeping the rear of the saddle securely held down.
It unfortunately is far enough from either "traditional" style that it would not pass muster in the show ring. So I don't think that I will be buying this particular saddle--the Tuckers are expensive enough that I would have to sell my good (but heavy) Western saddle--I can't afford to have one of each. And showing is one way that I market my young horses, so I have to have something acceptable, at least at the local level. So I am trying this Tucker with the idea that if it fits my wide-bodied beauties (and my wide body, as well), then I might start watching for a more traditionally styled Tucker, while trying to sell my roper.

So this morning, before starting on any projects (but after socializing a bit with Jackson), Kate came out of the paddock and got saddled up in the Tucker.

I didn't do any more lunging than a few times each direction at the end of the mecate lead. Kate stood quietly while I mounted, and we headed down the driveway, for a brief ride around the neighborhood.
But Kate felt that this was different than her past few outings:
For one, she was ALONE! No other horses in front or in back, just HER out in the world.
Another factor that no doubt had play was the fact that, as soon as we were on our way, everybody back at the barn started carrying on--calling, racing about their paddocks, and generally inviting Kate to be stupid.
And stupid she was!
In spite of the fact that this was where she had started her riding horse career, suddenly nothing in the area was to be trusted! We walked forward at the blistering pace of 10 or 15 steps, then 30 seconds of eying things and looking back over her shoulder at her buddies. And this was just down the driveway. Once on the road, heading north past the neighbor's house and feedlot was excruciatingly slow. Where I had hoped to make the four mile loop to the next cross road and back on the unpaved ditch road, I moderated my goal to making it to the hay barns and service yard a mere half mile ahead.
I don't like working on asphalt, so I didn't argue with her much, just insisted that we keep going forward. One . Step . At . A . Time . (okay, sometimes four or five).
Complicating the trip was the pickup that raced up behind us, despite me waving him to slow down several times--he finally did, but I think only because by the time he got up to us, Kate had whirled to face him, smack dab in the center of the road.
Then just before reaching our turn-around goal, the neighbor's teenage haying crew also came up behind us, towing a flatbed trailer loaded with baling twine. They approached much slower (they know better), but there was a strange "thu-bump" noise joining the raucous farm truck's engine noise. I pointed out that they had a flat tire on the trailer, to the point that the rubber was totally disconnected from the rim--they hadn't noticed, and would surely have destroyed the rim (the tire was already toast) by the time they got to where they were going. They waited for me to reach the better footing of the service yard, and then limped their truck in, as well.
Now on dirt, I got after Kate for her obstinate behavior. We did a bunch of yeilding and circles, backing, more yeilding, until she got the message that I was in charge of our itinerary. We worked around the barns, the boys and their dogs, and various farm implements until I had her full cooperation. Then we headed back down the road the way we had come, at a remarkably improved pace--though not jigging or otherwise being inappropriate, Kate's walk was free and willing--after all, we were headed for home.
Or so she thought.
At the end of our driveway I turned east on the cross road!
Kate got as far as our mailbox before she realized this wasn't the route she had hoped for. She stopped once, and I urged her forward; she hesitated once more, then agreed that I was in control, and we headed along the north end of the farm. Because of her cooperation, I then turned south along the ditch road at the east edge of the farm, thinking to cool out on our way to the south gate into our pasture, and the last leg home.
But upon reaching that gate, she threw a minor fit about being asked to side pass to the gate to open it. That particular spot is between two branches of the main irrigation ditch, with a distinct possibility of her backing into steep, wet trouble. My back had been starting to ache, so I took the conservative approach to this problem: I got off and worked her from the ground--yielding, circles, backing, more yielding. This was actually as naughty as she had been the whole ride, half-rearing as she changed directions on the circles. We both worked up a bit of perspiration before she finally settled down to listen to ME. Then, at my insistence, she stood stock still next to the gate for a minute, before we went through and I found a log from which to remount and ride down the pasture to the house.

One thing that was positive about the whole affair was that, upon unsaddling her, the sweat pattern across her back was more evenly distributed than with my roping saddle. So the extra wide tree on the Tucker was the right size. (The seat, however comfortable it was with it's "gel-cush" padding, seemed a little small for me, however.)
I hosed her down and put her back out with her friends.

So much for an easy first ride back after my lay-off!

A Little Bit about Bits

Awhile back, dp asked about the transition between snaffle and bosal that I made with Kate last spring, partly, I think, because she is going bitless with Tonka and Raven. In my instance, the change was purely medical: Kate had had several caps removed from her adult molars, as well as her wolf teeth, and the vet said no bit for a month. At that point I had only been on her three times, so it was a major leap of faith for me to give up the extra control I imagined I had with a bit. Kate did fine, as did I, and there are several advantages that come with a bosal.

In the vaquero tradition of the old-time California horsemen, the bosal is actually a move up from the early training in a snaffle--it is the first introduction to pressure on the sides and lower parts of the jawbones, that will eventually come from the curb strap of a full (western) bridle. There is, obviously, some pressure on the sensitive bridge of the nose, but it is not the primary control. As I undersand it (and I am NOT an expert, by any means), the bosal begins teaching the horse to round at the poll and across the topline, engaging the hindquarters fully and allowing collection. The bosal is used two-handed with primarily direct rein pressure. I use this softer latigo (possibly kangaroo hide) bosal because I don't care for the extra abrasion of rawhide. In this photo, just after I got the headstall, the bosal is probably one hole to high, but I actually damaged the cartilage at the end of Corky's nose when he was young, by having his bosal too low--so I'm extra careful now with fitting.

Here is the bridle that I generally start my babies in: a 4 3/4 inch, D-ring snaffle with copper and stainless steel rollers on the mouth piece (see photo below). Although it may seem that the rope reins and slobber straps are a bit faddish, I have used rope reins for years, because I like the more solid, substantial grip they provide, especially on the babies.

Don't get me started on the myth that a western snaffle requires a curb or chin strap to "keep the bit from being pulled through the horse's mouth." If the headstall, which is anchored on the horse's ears and jaw, can't prevent this (along with the shanks of the bit), then that floppy chin strap ain't gonna do it! I've ridden English at least as long as I have western, and never once have I seen a chin strap on a snaffle bit! I only have them on my western bridles because the rulebooks (and judges) require them.

Here is the 5 inch, full cheek, egg-butt (no pinch) bit that I moved up to this year with Kate and Maddie. As with the D-ring, control is through direct rein pressure, with the cheeks of the bit pulling directly against the sides of the horse's face.Notice the angle that the cheekpieces are to Maddie's mouth. This western headstall swells a little for the bit conchos, and I can't get the "keepers" over the headstall to anchor the top of the cheek piece. This means that pressure on the reins "breaks" the joint of the bit forward in her mouth and applies the primary pressure to the corners of her mouth, not against the roof or bars of the mouth.
Here are the keepers in place (on Zoe, with an older headstall). Pressure is more against the bars than the corners of her mouth, and more pressure is applied to the roof of the mouth by the joint of the bit.
Here's my chunky egg-butt snaffle, in my English headstall. Notice the loop on the noseband for a flash strap. There was a time when, as a matter of course, I used either the flash or a figure eight noseband on young horses to encourage the habit of keeping their mouths closed. (I don't like a straight dropped noseband, again because of the damage I did to Corky's nose cartilage.) I suppose I may still do that if, after a month or so, a youngster is still jawing at the bit, but I haven't had to any time recently.
Here's Zoe's half-brother (and Kate's half-uncle), Pete, with the flash in place.
I picked up this Myler D-ring off of eBay last year, and just started using it on the girls. The roller in the middle of the mouthpiece prevents the joint from forming a "V" and "poking
' the roof of the mouth, so pressure is primarily against the bars and tongue. You can just see the copper inlays in the mouthpiece, that promote salivation, and therefore softness. The little "rings" on the D's serve the same function as the keepers on the full-cheek: the headstall goes through the top set, holding the D and mouth in the proper position.
The reins go in the lower ring. Because the two sides of the bit operate independently (because of the central roller), a direct rein on just one side supposedly can help tip the nose and "lift" the horse's shoulder.
While Kate really seems to like this bit (she stays very soft and supple, reaching down for contact), Maddie fussed at it all last Saturday afternoon. She had done fine in the full cheek in the English classes, but it's what I've been using on her regularly--I only added the Myler to the mix a week ago. We'll have to wait and see if she settles into it.
I haven't used a curb bit on a horse in probably 30 years (with the exception of the horse in the last picture in this post). This is partly because I haven't really had the opportunity to go beyond basic training, trail riding, and low level showing. I bought this bit for Kate when I thought I might try reining with her (I may yet, sometime in the future). It has the same roller mouth as the Myler (in this case known as a "Billy Allen") and I like that I have the option of putting a snaffle rein on it (making it a "western pelham"). But the shanks are pretty long, and Kate and I would have to be pretty advanced before I would consider using it.
Instead, or at least before hand, I would try this little bit, which I love the looks of, with its filigree inlay, short shanks, and copper-inlaid mouthpiece. It is essentially what folks call a "Tom Thumb" or "Colt Bit" because of the short shanks and broken mouthpeice. Unfortunately, most folks don't realize how severe this combination can be in untrained hands: the combination of leverage and nutcracker action can be very damaging. Many people think "It's just a snaffle, so it must be mild." But as soon as one adds a shank and a curb strap, it becomes a curb (leverage) bit. My hands will have to get much lighter and steadier before I even consider moving to this.
I haven't used this little English pelham in a looong time--it's actually getting rusty, and therefore it's not likely I'll ever use it again. But it was a nice general use curb bit back in the '70's, when I dabbled at eventing. It has a fairly fat mouth piece that is reversible: the slight "ribs" you can see on the mouthpiece provide a little more pressure on the bars, while the other side was smooth. I still value the fact that I learned to ride with double reins with this.
This is the only curb bit I have actually ridden with since that pelham, and only because the horse is no longer mine, and this was what the owner uses. I don't remember, but I think it has a snaffle mouthpeice.
This is Eddie--registered name: EvenSong. He was our first baby (2000),out of Misty--so he's Maddie's big brother! He's a real sweetie, livin' the good life in Connecticutt.

Mid-winter Fuzz-Face

I needed to get some photos of Al's old saddle, to put on eBay, so Kate offered to model. At this time (December 2007) she is about 30 months old, and already over 1000 pounds, but stands only 14.2 or so--you can see what a CHUNK she is!